19 Responses to “Magnolia Complete Streets Re-Striping A Go”

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  1. JP

    What exciting news for the bicycle crowd! Perhaps this will spur similar efforts on other streets around town.

  2. Ross

    Kevin,

    I was talking with someone who attended the meeting last night and this person seemed to think that the presenters said the streetcar will run in the bike line. This was not my understanding and I’m not really sure how it would work. Can you provide some clarification? I also heard the presenters mentioned “swerving” around buses/streetcars that are stopped. Huh?

  3. Ross,

    There are several ways the streetcar could work on the street. If the desire is to double-track the streetcar on Magnolia (a good goal) and keep it running curbside (also a good goal), you can run into problems with the tracks snagging bike tires and flipping the bikes. There are several alternatives, the most basic of which is that the bike lanes would become just “streetcar space,” if you will. That is, they’d no longer be bike lanes – the outside of the street would become a sort-of streetcar lane without cars or bike, and bikes would return to using the traffic lane. This would still be safer than the existing design, since traffic will have already been slowed and controlled by the new lane arrangement and the presence of the streetcars every 15 minutes would also likely have a calming effect. There are other alternatives that keep the bike lanes and all alternatives will be explored when the full engineering process for the Magnolia streetcar line kicks into gear.

    As for swerving around buses & streetcars – outside of the pull-off at Hemphill, the rest of the bus stops work exactly as they do now as I expected. The bus would pull up to the curb, stop, and passengers would enter/exit. Cars behind the bus would either wait or could go around in the traffic lane. This is also safer than the current configuration – the bus will stop in the bike lane space and only occupy a small part of the travel lane, so cars behind will have a full and clear view past the bus to judge whether it is safe to pass. The streetcars will behave similarly.

  4. Ross

    Thanks for the explanation. Is the concept of the bike lane becoming “streetcar space” a new idea? In any case, I think it’s a good way to go – seems to achieve all of the goals many of us have for the neighborhood.

  5. Holden

    Any news on the city’s Comprehensive Bike Plan?

    http://www.fortworthgov.org/uploadedFiles/Public_Meetings/2008/12/1209_ITC.pdf

    I’d like to suggest Oakhurst Scenic and Race St to get dedicated bike lanes.

  6. Jonathan

    So you’re saying the worst case scenario involves cars and bikes sharing a single traffic lane, that gets reduced to half a lane when there is a streetcar or bus stopped. That sounds like a pretty bad “worst case” to me.

  7. Jonathan

    Especially considering that currently there are two perfectly good lanes now. If you’re going to make a section of the street streetcar or bus only, why not make it an entire lane rather than trying to shoehorn a left turn lane into the middle?

  8. I hardly think that that’s all that bad, because traffic will already be moving more slowly and more safely than with four traffic lanes.

    As I said, there are *many* alternatives when the streetcar comes and all will be examined. There is no need for such strident opposition when we still have a full engineering effort on the streetcar to get it all worked out. The people who are working on both of these projects (and there are people on both) are some pretty smart urban planners – they will examine all alternatives. There is no reason to think yet that they’re incapable of figuring this out. In the mean time, we’ll have a slower, safer, more bike-and-pedestrian-friendly Magnolia to enjoy while the streetcar integration is figured out.

  9. Ross

    One thing I don’t understand is why the complete streets project and the streetcar project are not being jointly planned. Does it make sense to create the bike lanes and make other changes with TIF money only to have those improvements removed/altered only a few years later? I like the idea of having the complete streets improvements in place between now and the time streetcar construction begins, but wouldn’t it be better to plan ahead so that the complete streets improvements compliment the streetcar development?

    And, Kevin, I realize the planners are smart folks, but what’s with you drinking the “trust us” cool-aid? Are you feeling okay? ;)

  10. Ross,

    The streetcar project and these sorts of things are separate, but there are people working on both projects. They’re not separated completely. The streetcar has been on the minds of the re-striping team since the beginning, because the people who drew up the re-striping are many of the same ones who lobbied for the streetcar on Magnolia and designed the preliminary alignment.

    (BTW, I probably should have put this in the original post, but the re-striping will be $20,000-$25,000. It’s a very low cost and low intensity project as far as street work goes.)

    There’s no Kool-Aid involved. I just happen to have a personal involvement in this and I’m not sure it would be helpful if I just laid everything I know out there right now. I will say that a variety of alternatives are being looked at as to how the streetcar will integrate into this project. In fact, I am drawing up a proposal now. It’s just that there is plenty of time for us to come up with a solution and believe me, when there is a more solidified one, I will report about it. Far more than just me reads these comments – we’re taking a lot of ideas into consideration.

  11. Jonathan

    Here is my response to an inquiry as to why I am skeptical about the restriping initiative:

    “I think it’s an unnecessary expense. I’m always bothered by the fact that neither motorists nor cyclists seem to understand the right of cyclists to share the road… any road. I feel that the creation of bike lanes undermines a cyclists right to use any legal right of way, and gives weight to claims that cyclists should only use dedicated bike lanes or designated bike routes.”

    “If a bike lane is needed anywhere, it certainly shouldn’t be needed on a street like Magnolia. They’re needed on Henderson between Pennsylvania and White Settlement, or W 7th from Camp Bowie to downtown. Adding a lane on Magnolia is at best a token achievement, and at worst contrary to the cause of cyclists [who] want to share public roads everywhere.”

    “I also don’t like seeing a traffic reduction initiative framed as a bicycle safety issue. Has there been a rash of bicycle accidents on Magnolia that I am unaware of?”

    “I love the redevelopment and urbanization of the southside. I just don’t think this particular initiative is necessary or productive.”

  12. Jonathan

    I would also like to add that I’m not sure what cyclists are supposed to do when they reach 8th Ave of Hemphill. If Magnolia is such a danger to ride on now, surely 8th Ave and Hemphill are worse. Perhaps they should be considered for bike lanes. Probably better to focus on making the dangerous less dangerous, than the safe safer.

  13. As to that last point – it was determined that 8th Avenue is not a bicycle destination. Even experienced cyclists do not ride down 8th Avenue, let along less experienced ones. The bike lane runs to 8th Avenue because Near Southside cyclists do cross over 8th Avenue to go through the Baylor campus to reach the Trinity Trails, but 8th Avenue itself is not a cycling destination. Cyclists proceeding N or S typically use the Fairmount neighborhood streets and avoid 8th Avenue. (I speak from personal experience on the matter, and other cyclists and Panther City Bikes told FWSI the same thing, I believe.)

    8th Avenue and Hemphill are not yet at the point where they have reclaimed an urban nature and are not really cycling destinations.

  14. Jonathan

    They’re not bicycle destinations because it’s too dangerous to ride there. Magnolia IS a bicycle destination because it’s safe. You can’t say that we need to add bike lanes to attract riders and then say we don’t need to add them elsewhere because no one rides there. That’s circular logic.

  15. mcnggt

    I agree with Jonathan’s last comment. I think that Hemphill and 8th Ave should be made safe for bike riders. I think if they were safe areas for riding, people would ride there more. But overall, I am happy that Magnolia will be made safer for bike riders as well as pedestrians.

  16. Jonathan,

    I was almost clipped by a Chevy truck on Magnolia riding to the bike lane meeting (oh, sweet irony) – so no, I don’t think Magnolia is all that safe for cyclists just yet. A lot more could be done. Believe me, I do think there are other streets that need retrofits like this as well – 7th Street being one. I was actually *hit* by an SUV on 7th earlier in the year (Panther City Bikes can attest to straightening out my Breezer after the incident), so I definitely get it.

    8th Avenue could get there, but there also needs to be some actual urban development along the street which helps to corral car speeds as well. 8th Avenue has a long way to go before it’s considered a cycling street. There is little in the way of destinations on 8th. Magnolia already attracts experienced riders, so the bike lanes will draw in less experienced cyclists and bump up the total of cyclists using the street. It is a perfect place to serve as the leading edge of Complete Streets in Fort Worth and is already of the sort of nature that would be well served by being a more cycling-oriented street. Magnolia’s retrofit will be a great example that can be applied to many other streets – it’s not as though Magnolia’s retrofit will prevent other streets from getting bike lanes. You have to start somewhere, and a destination street like Magnolia makes a great example.

  17. BTW, there is some preliminary talk of extending this sort of retrofit to other Near Southside streets after Magnolia is completed and up & running. Another potential candidate might be South Main.

    It is very possible that these retrofits could be done to other streets in other districts, but I mainly hear about Near Southside examples because of my closeness with Fort Worth South, Inc.